v2.2

Racing Challenge

Title: 4:00am
Author: Cas
Created: 2006-2-28
Cars allowed: Speedgate XSD
Style: OWOOT
Ran: 2021-04-01 - 2021-04-26
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Cas @2021-04-30 17:28:26 UTC
Thanks, @Duplode! I think we'll use the ideas we've discussed as a reference for future events, but we won't be setting specific rules on this. Maybe just trying to avoid some details on tracks for certain racing styles will be enough!
Duplode @2021-04-28 00:05:02 UTC
If I understood the problem correctly, I think my earlier suggestion would deal with the passing on the outside issue. A picture might be clearer than the run-in sentence I had written, so here is one:  https://i.imgur.com/6Crz9Hi.png
Cas @2021-04-27 17:37:59 UTC
Maybe an extra status could be added for replays, something between verified and rejected, but better than pending, something like "under observation" or "in discussion". The racer may then also participate, send a PM to the moderators inbox or something like that.
KyLiE @2021-04-27 02:20:35 UTC
I don't think it's possible to define the rules regarding slalom blocks without being subjective, unless of course you decide to allow passing them on the outside. I think in these rare cases, it's best to allow the moderator verifying the replay to make the decision. If they are unsure, they can seek the opinion of a fellow moderator to help them come to a conclusion, as we have done in the past.
KyLiE @2021-04-27 02:16:08 UTC
@Cas, I don't think that will work either. From the F3 top-down view, you can quite easily appear to make contact with only a single slalom block when driving between them, without being airborne.
Duplode @2021-04-27 00:27:02 UTC
@Cas That one looks tricky to get right. With my replay, for instance, I think there is a one pixel gap between the second block and the car (already on the ground) at the moment when they are closest to each other (1:11.95). Pulling that off with a narrower car could be harder still.
Cas @2021-04-26 22:17:53 UTC
What do you guys think about that one? Finally, great driving, @Duplode and @KyLiE! I like to see the Speedgate well exploited
Cas @2021-04-26 22:16:57 UTC
Now I'm thinking that an alternate, simple and more comfortable option could be that if the car is found to be visibly in contact with any of the blocks, then it must be in contact with both for the lap to be valid. That would be an unambiguous way to define what we've seen in valid replays on this race, but not in invalid ones. Of course, additionally, if you're not in contact with any, then you can't pass both on the same side or you'd be "not executing the stunt".
Cas @2021-04-26 22:13:27 UTC
Thanks for commenting, guys. I really do feel it'd be more comfortable to allow more than to restrict, although maybe that difference could be set for free-OWOOT races in the future. I don't know. Anything that makes it less ambiguous for future races is good. Before this race, my view was that, to correctly go through a slalom, the car (as viewed from F3 top) should make no contact with the blocks regardless of altitude, but remain OWOOT.
Duplode @2021-04-26 20:42:09 UTC
Thanks @KyLiE! On the blocks, an alternative way of dealing with the passing-on-the-outside issue might be requiring that no part of the car goes off the track on the outside of the block while the car is flying over the block. Or would that be too awkward?
KyLiE @2021-04-26 11:32:48 UTC
Also, well done @Duplode! I was wondering if you would take first place from me in the last few hours of the race.
KyLiE @2021-04-26 11:32:18 UTC
@Cas, I'm more comfortable with the rules that we followed during the last race, that is, allowing people to jump over the slalom blocks provided that they pass through the centre, following the yellow line. If you want to allow jumping over the slalom blocks regardless of the position and rely solely on the F3 top-down view for verification, then you will also have to allow passing the slalom blocks on the outside, as it's not always obvious when the car is airborne from this view.
Cas @2021-04-26 02:14:48 UTC
Alright, so we've found an ambiguity in the rules, in my opinion, because while in this case it's clear there's a difference between overflying a block and only visually doing so because of the car being closer to the camera, in practical terms, it is not possible to determine this by watching the replay in F3 view. I propose introducing a rule to completely allow overflying slalom blocks in future races to get rid of the ambiguity.
Cas @2021-04-26 00:23:34 UTC
Yes, it seems to me in this case, it makes more sense to approve these replays
Duplode @2021-04-26 00:00:15 UTC
@Cas I won't complain of any decision, but anyway here is my perspective. I had to redrive the second half of my lap because on my first attempt the car had clearly flown over the block. I felt keeping the car centered was the easiest way to fix that. If it matters, continuing my replay from 1:09.75 while holding the brakes shows the car does go between the blocks.
Cas @2021-04-25 22:23:42 UTC
Taking a closer look at my own replay, I see mine has a much milder version of the same problem. It look like if these replays are not valid, we'll be out of a scoreboard
Cas @2021-04-25 22:14:02 UTC
Uh, oh... I see @KyLiE is doing exactly the same thing at 1:20.40. So either both are valid or both are not. Guys, please, I would like your opinions... unless you have the time to post another replay
Cas @2021-04-25 22:06:58 UTC
@Duplode... I'm evaluating the RH replay and at 1:11.45, you partially fly over a slalom block. Your car is centred, so you're not really skipping the block, but the car pixels are drawn over it, so I think it wouldn't be valid. I'll check the other one before coming back to it
Duplode @2021-04-25 22:05:34 UTC
Fortunately for me, 4:00am is surprisingly gentle as a NoRH track
Duplode @2021-04-25 21:44:45 UTC
All right, here is a RH lap. NoRH might require more practice than what is currently feasible, I'm afraid...
Cas @2021-04-25 20:13:04 UTC
Hope to see your replay there!
Duplode @2021-04-25 19:15:03 UTC
Let's see if I can remember how to drive the Speedgate in the remaining hours...
dreadnaut @2021-04-24 20:12:04 UTC
I drove a completely new lap, with a different style, and got precisely the same time 🤦‍♂️
dreadnaut @2021-04-11 19:29:39 UTC
Hello! 4am is always good fun
Cas @2021-04-08 05:50:29 UTC
Thanks, @afullo! And @KyLiE, I've beaten your last lap, ha, ha. But I'm pretty certain you can leave me behind very quickly.
KyLiE @2021-04-07 14:20:32 UTC
Thanks for posting again @afullo. Your replay has been verified!
KyLiE @2021-04-05 15:00:20 UTC
Here we go! The legendary 4:00am!
Cas @2021-04-04 17:55:20 UTC
Thanks, guys. I'm here with my first replay for this track!
Igor @2021-04-03 04:55:46 UTC
I quite like this track thanks Cas.
KyLiE @2021-04-02 12:45:35 UTC
@afullo, unfortunately your replay is invalid due to jumping over one of the slalom blocks. It's the early days of the race though, so there's plenty of time to post another replay!
CTG @2021-04-02 08:49:44 UTC
This track is a monster.
Cas @2021-04-01 00:05:04 UTC
We have a new race and it's a classic! 4:00am was first in WSC in 2006, then in ZakStunts in 2015 and is now in R4K, only this time, the car is the Speedgate Have fun!


Pos.RacerLapCarStylePostedStatus
1Duplode2:26.05Speedgate XSDOWOOT/RH2021-04-25
2KyLiE2:40.05Speedgate XSDOWOOT/RH2021-04-25
Duplode2:44.05Speedgate XSDOWOOT/NoRH2021-04-25
3Cas2:47.60Speedgate XSDOWOOT/RH2021-04-08
KyLiE2:48.10Speedgate XSDOWOOT/NoRH2021-04-05
4dreadnaut2:51.65Speedgate XSDOWOOT/RH2021-04-11
Cas2:54.30Speedgate XSDOWOOT/NoRH2021-04-08
5Igor2:57.55Speedgate XSDOWOOT/RH2021-04-03
6afullo3:00.20Speedgate XSDOWOOT/RH2021-04-06
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